ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MONDAY, APRIL 25, 2011
Members Present: Mr. Baroody, Mr. Darrow, Ms. Calarco, Mr. Kilmer, Mr. Tamburrino and Mr. Westlake
Member Absent: Ms. Marteney (called out of town)
Staff Present: Mr. Fusco, Mr. Hicks and Ms. Jensen
APPLICATION APPROVED: 19 Throop Avenue
APPLICATION TABLED: 112 Swift Street, 110 Clymer Street
Mr. Westlake: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, this is the Zoning Board of Appeals. Tonight we have the following item: 19 Throop Avenue, 112 Swift Street, 110 Clymer Street
If there are no errors, omissions or additions to last month’s minutes of the meeting, the minutes will stand as written.
Thank you.
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19 Throop Avenue. Area variance to erect a 6’ high fence within the front yard of a corner lot. Stacy L. Tamburrino, applicant.
Mr. Westlake: 19 Throop Street would please come to the podium, state your name and explain what you would like to do.
Mrs. DeForrest: My name is Stacy DeForrest formerly Tamburrino. I submitted an application for an area variance to put in fencing surrounding the perimeter of my yard. Two small sections of that fencing would 6 foot instead of the 4 foot required. In the application that you have in front of you at the end of it I attached a copy of a survey and color coded where the small sections are and you can see where they are and that is my request.
Mr. Westlake: Thank you. Any questions from the board?
Mr. Fusco: You indicate on your application that other already existing portions of fences and bushes are 6 feet so that these 2 sections that you would asking for a variance would be consistent with what is already there.
Mrs. DeForrest: As you can see on the survey the bushes that are there are taller than 6 foot but the other fencing around perimeter that is within Code will be 6 foot. The other 6-foot fencing is not there right now we are going to have it installed.
Mr. Westlake: OK.
Mr. Kilmer: I would like to thank you for typing this I am a sloppy writer and can’t read sloppy writing but this is nice, thank you.
Mrs. DeForrest: Your welcome.
Mr. Westlake: Are there any other questions from the board? Seeing none. Thank you if you would like to take a sit we will let you know in a few minutes. Is there anyone here wishing to speak for or against this application? Seeing none we will discuss it amongst ourselves.
Mr. Darrow: A corner lot is notorious for privacy and I understand completely.
Ms. Calarco: And it really is not affecting anyone view.
Mr. Tamburrino: The purpose of the fence is to protect the children that is the most important thing.
Mr. Westlake: Do I hear a motion?
Mr. Darrow: I would like to make motion that we grant Stacy L. Tamburrino of 19 Throop Avenue a area variance for the purpose of erecting 6 foot high fence on the corner lot as submitted in plot plan.
Mr. Baroody: I second the motion.
VOTING IN FAVOR: Mr. Baroody, Mr. Darrow, Ms. Calarco, Mr. Kilmer, Mr. Westlake
ABSTAINING: Mr. Tamburrino
Mr. Westlake: Your application has been approved. Good luck with your project.
Mrs. DeForrest: Thank you
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112 Swift Street. Area variance for erection of an 18 x 18 foot addition to the rear of the structure. Shawn McNabb, applicant.
Mr. Westlake: 112 Swift Street would please come to the podium, state your name and explain what you would like to do.
Mr. McNabb: Shawn McNabb and I submitted an application to put an addition on the backside of my home at 112 Swift Street. As you can see this is kind of a tight spot but the backside of this home is actually 100% useless to me and to my neighbors also as far the visual backside is concerned. I am asking to go all the way to my property line 100% the depth of the property and as you can see on the drawing that I submitted that it will follow pretty much to the jog in the property line. Would also like to install a concrete patio on the east side of and also a shed at the end of the driveway.
Now I went ahead and measured this out as best as I could right to the “T” what I am capable of doing and leaving an area on the west side of the addition for access to the south side of the property which would actually not my property it would be the neighboring property on Lake Avenue. This whole area I have just a small addition off the back a backroom it is completely useless to me there was a deck on the back of the home when I purchased it and I tore that off immediately with the intention of doing this addition. I was hoping to do it a lot earlier than now but now seems to be the time that works for me. There are a lot of little touchy things here but I think I have everything pretty well cut and dried as far as the patio, as far as being at least a foot from the property line, the shed is not the size in the drawing it
is an 8 x 10 foot.
I guess the big discussion is the addition itself being up to the property line. I have rental property to the east of me and rental property to the south of me. I have no privacy whatsoever. My privacy is on my front porch you can imagine from there. So I would like to utilize this back area to no only to increase my living space but to fence it in with 6 or 8 foot fence which ever would feasible in this situation to kind of give myself some privacy and utilize this back area because basically it is not only an eyesore which is truly an eyesore I have gone and put a lot of money into this home in the lat 3 or 4 years and this would kind of just wrap it all up and make this entire project come together for me. I am sure there are some questions.
Mr. Westlake: Thank you. Any questions from the board?
Mr. Darrow: My first question is in this folder you say looking north from rear so if you are looking north if you were to look south wouldn’t you then face your neighbor’s property behind you?
Mr. McNabb: I don’t have the packet in front of me.
Mr. Darrow: It says looking south and that doesn’t make sense.
Mr. McNabb: The upper picture is standing on the west side of the home facing south.
Mr. Darrow: So if you are facing south wouldn’t we be seeing the rear of your neighborhood’s property behind you? The back of your house and we are facing north turn an 180 degrees you are going to be facing south you should be seeing your neighbor’s property is this your neighbor’s property?
Mr. McNabb: That is my neighbor’s property to the west.
Mr. Tamburrino: That property that you are looking at is a Lake Avenue backyard right?
Mr. McNabb: No. The fenced in property?
Mr. Tamburrino: No this photograph here (points to it). Say here looking south from west side.
Mr. McNabb: Ok you are on the west side of my home
Mr. Tamburrino: Right
Mr. McNabb: Facing south you are looking at what little you can see of the neighboring property.
Mr. Tamburrino: My question to you the neighbor on Lake Avenue are they aware of this project?
Mr. McNabb: The owner of that property, that is income property, but the owner of that property is 100% aware of this project. He was aware of it last year.
Mr. Tamburrino: You don’t have any documentation as to his agreeing with it?
Mr. McNabb: No I don’t .
Mr. Fusco: Who is Gary Waldron?
Mr. McNabb: He is my neighbor to the west.
Mr. Fusco: Why did Gary Waldron sign?
Mr. McNabb: If you notice the photo of the one that was in question he is the property to the west. That fence line right there is within a foot or so of his property and mine. That is going to be his view of my backyard.
Mr. Fucso: Gary Waldron’s signature appears in your presentation because he agrees with this?
Mr. McNabb: Yes.
Mr. Fusco: I don’t see any other signatures in here.
Mr. McNabb: I was in the process of explaining the same question that Mr. Tamburrino asked. I have left about 17 messages and he contacted me twice and he is fully aware of the project. He was out of the country on vacation for 2 weeks, we played phone tag left and right, he is fully aware of it and I don’t know why he didn’t get a hold of me but he is 100% aware of the project.
Mr. Tamburrino: The house he owns is an upstairs and downstairs right?
Mr. McNabb: On Lake Avenue.
Mr. Tamburrino: It is on the West side of Lake Avenue.
Mr. McNabb: Right.
Mr. Tamburrino: The house is yellow and is an up and down.
Mr. McNabb: Yes.
Mr. Tamburrino: Ok.
Mr. McNabb: This whole backyard has never been used. It is not of use to anybody there including myself and me being the property owner right there even the tenants don’t use their backyard. The tenant that is there right now just put up a swing set for their child on the far end of their property. I have been there many years and this is the first time that any tenant has utilized the back property for anything whatsoever. It is a shame.
Mr. Darrow: You reside at 112 Swift Street?
Mr. McNabb: I do.
Mr. Fusco: How come it is not mowed?
Mr. McNabb: I have probably been in my backyard twice in a year. It is totally useless to me. Do you realize how small this is?
Mr. Darrow: I am thinking about 10 foot from there to the property line.
Mr. Fusco: You are required by Code to mow your lawn.
Mr. McNabb: I will mow it.
Mr. Darrow: Is this correct 10 from here to here?
Mr. McNabb: The back room of the house?
Mr. Darrow: Yes from this?
Mr. McNabb: Yes.
Mr. Darrow: How big is this 5-foot?
Mr. McNabb: I would say I didn’t measure that I would guess it is 5 or 6 feet.
Mr. Darrow: So if it is 5 and you are going 18 x 18
Mr. McNabb: No I am looking for a 14 x 15.
Mr. Baroody: You want to put on an 18 x 18 foot addition on the rear of the house that is not there now correct?
Mr. McNabb: No that is not correct I want to put on a 14 x 15.
Ms. Calarco: The way this presentation reads it requests 18 x 18.
We can’t act on it the way it is written now. It has to be revised.
Mr. Baroody: A 14 x 15 foot addition and a patio and a shed.
Mr. McNabb: Yes sir.
Mr. Kilmer: So will the 14 feet still bring it south and be right on the property line?
Mr. McNabb: I am not a surveyor I did the best I could putting these lines together. So if 14 foot put it right now or put it an inch over I will keep it an inch on mine no matter how that works just to get me the availability to do that. I am not going over the line by any means whatsoever, I don’t intend to and I don’t want to.
Mr. Kilmer: But 14 is pretty much right on the line.
Mr. McNabb: It is right there.
Mr. Westlake: You can’t go over your line no matter what. We can’t allow you to go on somebody else’s property.
Mr. Kilmer: I have a question for Brain. What kind of situations have you seen in the past when a structure comes up right to the adjacent property owner’s property can we anticipate suppose 5 years down the road the property owner to the south isn’t the same property owner that it is now and he wants to put new siding on or paint and says you are not coming on my property I don’t care who you are. That could potentially be an issue right?
Mr. Hicks: That has been an issue in the past. There is a way to get permission to enforce letting the person go on the property but it is easy.
Mr. McNabb: Can I ask a question? If in the past that has happened obviously somebody in the past made a decision not to have a lot that is 25 feet deep out the back door of the home to begin with. So I am almost suffering not being able to access 25 foot that I am required every home in the City of Auburn as far as I know so I am already cut short. I am trying to utilize what little I have to make what I can of my home and make the neighborhood more presentable.
Mr. Baroody: You can have steps off the back porch to the backyard. You are looking for almost 450 square feet or your entire backyard right down to the property line.
Mr. McNabb: At least 3 feet on the west side for access to the back of the property to the south of the property and at least a foot away with the patio all the way around the property following the property line and coming up parallel with the home.
Mr. Darrow: I will be honest with you Mr. McNabb I have a great deal of difficulty the 14 foot considering there is really nothing in writing opposed or in favor from your property owners to the south which as stated could change in 5 years. I personally wouldn’t have as much difficulty if it was 12 foot and you allowed 2 foot of access behind the back but that is only a decision you can make. But going right to the property line I have great difficulty because we are required to give the least amount of variance necessary and right to the property line I have difficulty with that.
Ms. Calarco: I think the other reason I have difficulty on it is I am looking at safety issues Fire and Emergency access whatever when you are that close to property lines.
Mr. McNabb: What do you mean?
Ms. Calarco: I am taking about Fire being able to get to your property the back of your property because you are now on someone else’s property. If your building is going on the property line anybody that has to get to the back of your building now has to go your neighbor’s property.
Mr. McNabb: As it stands now also pretty much if there is a fire in my home or one of the other homes you are going to be on 3 different properties.
Ms. Calarco: I guess my question is why can’t we consider a 12-foot instead of a 14-foot? I understand the need and a 15 x 14 is a very nice size room I get that.
Mr. McNabb: That would be the biggest room in my entire home.
Ms. Calarco: I understand that. I really do.
Mr. Westlake: I think my objection to going right to the line is the surveyor’s in the City of Auburn one surveyor could say the line is here and if the property behind you is sold and another surveyor does it your building could be on their property so building that close there is no margin for error so I think a 2 foot set back would be better.
Mr. Baroody: I have a corner lot and I had to move my shed for that very reason. Could not build a garage even though my brother-in-law was next door so I have 2 front yards just like you. We put the shed up right it was new owner came I had to move it 6 feet. Going to the property line is not a good idea.
Ms. Calarco: Go a little wider instead of 15 feet go 16 feet.
Mr. McNabb: I understand I am ok with that.
Ms. Calarco: I rather see that than to see you so close to the property line.
Mr. McNabb: What you are explaining to me I can see your view on that and also the 2 feet to have some leeway. I don’t have a problem with that this is what I wanted so if I have to adjust it a little bit what I would have to do is probably take the patio and square it with the house into the driveway.
Mr. Fusco: You understand that it is not our job however to blue pencil your plans to edit your plans. If this proposal fails tonight it would be our job to go back to the drawing board we don’t negotiate we will give you 2 feet but not the 4 that sort of thing.
Mr. Darrow: If you were to amend it now.
Mr. McNabb: I agree with you I am not opposed to making some adjustments.
Mr. Baroody: I have a question if you can’t access the property how are you going to get a backhoe back there to make the footers you are going to need a minimum of 3 feet
Mr. McNabb: I don’t need a backhoe I can get an excavator in there.
Mr. Baroody: How can you do it?
Mr. McNabb: From my driveway.
Mr. Tamburrino: Two things would be good I think for documentation. You can review your plan come back with a new plan and also come back with documentation from your neighbors to the south saying it is ok. Table this and come back next month with the right documentation I think you will be better off.
Mr. McNabb: Ok.
Mr. Darrow: Definitely need something from the neighbors.
Mr. McNabb: If there is anything else I can take into consideration I don’t want to debate about it all day long and neither do you.
Mr. Baroody: Get with a builder and architect for the amount of space you are going to need 2 feet is not going to be enough. You are going to have to have someone with a ladder to put up siding, brick, block whatever you are not going to be able to do that in 24 inches. No physical way. I do this every day.
Mr. McNabb: I know a lot about construction myself.
Mr. Fusco: Sir we are not here to argue with you we are here to help you.
Mr. McNabb: I am not arguing with anyone.
Mr. Fusco: Well it just sounded like it. You have good council from someone with experience in this line of work and then you go on to state I know what I am doing too.
Mr. McNabb: I just want to be on the same page with this information.
Mr. Baroody: Get a better package, have a plan, letters from the neighbors. If you table this for a month get all the stuff you need you have a good shot.
Mr. Tamburrino: Mr. McNabb has done a nice job remodeling his house he certainly has I walk that way a lot and he has done a good job. I think really like I said before get documentation and things will go a lot smoother for you.
Mr. McNabb: I am asking what I can do to make it go a little smoother for both us so we can have questions and answers and you are making great projections that I am all for.
Mr. Westlake: I think Mr. Darrow has a question.
Mr. Darrow: I have a question for Mr. Hicks. I know it is not but if this were a garage what are the setbacks 3 and 4, 3 foot on one side and 4 on the other?
Mr. Hicks: That is correct.
Mr. Darrow: Thank you.
Mr. Westlake: I guess my question too is you have to build this so it can’t be right on the line because you have to be standing on the neighbor’s property to build it. I can’t honestly say to you go ahead and do this because I am telling you then that you can stand on your neighbor’s property to do that and I have no right as a board member here to let you do that. You are going to have to go to somebody other than us to have them tell how much room you need to build. I can’t tell you because I don’t know. But I do know that it if it is on the line I can’t grant it.
Mr. Fusco: And I think that is what Mr. Baroody meant by getting plans I understand what your wishes are but as you saw in the previous presentation we have more definitive plans usually presented to us.
Mr. McNabb: This is a little more complicated than a fence.
Mr. Fusco: Exactly that is what I am talking about it is a lot more complicated than a fence therefore it does require a certain degree of expertise. I am not a builder but builder will need a certain amount of leeway on the side to be able to accomplish what it is that you have in mind and the height of whatever you have in mind will dictate how much space that builder needs. So those are the kinds of things that I think to be contemplated here. Understand also I don’t mean to give you a hard time I don’t like it when you spare with the board members. I apologize if I got on the wrong side of you but I will defend these members a thousand times out of a thousand and I will apologize to you but I will never stop defending them. Understand what their job is their job is give you by law the least variance necessary to
accomplish what you need if you show a need for a variance. There are two thresholds you have to show proof that you have to have a variance and then only the least variance allowable before the board members can grant it. Right now I have difficulty contemplating exactly what is going on I am going to drive over there and take a look at it assuming that it is going to be tabled or withdrawn tonight so I get a better picture and I will give you some free advice. Don’t come here to the board members and say your backyard is an eyesore when you don’t mow it that is a self-created hardship.
Mr. Darrow: One thing Mr. McNabb that is really pertinent is the fact that if it were a garage you would still be required to have 3 foot on one side and 4 foot on the other for the purpose of construction and maintenance. Take that and do with it what you will but I am assuming that you are going to table and represent next month.
Mr. McNabb: Yes I will.
Mr. Kilmer: I just have one point maybe going backwards a little bit Mr. McNabb, but Gary Waldron lives to your east?
Mr. McNabb: West.
Mr. Kilmer: Ok are the neighbors to the east and to the south are those two properties owned by the same person?
Mr. McNabb: They are.
Mr. Kilmer: Ok, they are. I know we are repeating ourselves but if you could a letter.
Mr. McNabb: No I want all the information I can get.
Ms. Calarco: In light of the fact that even if it is a 2 foot variance is allowed you are still are inevitably going to end up on that person’s property to some degree. If you would have something from that property owner telling us that they understand that this may be happening and we have on objection.
Mr. Baroody: We have a very narrow legislative thing we can look at and we may agree with you but if it is not presented in a context we can look at
Mr. Westlake: Would you like to table this until next month?
Mr. McNabb: Absolutely. This is the first property I have owned and I am doing a lot of things to it so bear with me if you would please.
Mr. Westlake: We will. I would like to make a motion that we table this until next month.
Mr. Baroody: Second.
Mr. Fusco: Do you plan to do this work yourself or do you plan to hire someone?
Mr. McNabb: I will do it myself. I have built half a dozen homes from the bottom up.
Mr. Fusco: I didn’t doubt that you had experience.
VOTING TO TABLE: Mr. Baroody, Mr. Darrow, Ms. Calarco, Mr. Kilmer, Mr. Tamburrino, Mr. Westlake
Mr. Westlake: We will table until next month.
Mr. McNabb: Ok, thanks for your time.
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110 Clymer Street. Area variance to install a 14’ x 28’ storage building on the property. Robert Considine, applicant.
Mr. Westlake: 110 Clymer Street apparently they are not here. Do we need a motion to table this until next month?
Mr. Baroody: I make a motion that we table this item until next month.
Mr. Kilmer: I second that motion.
VOTING TO TABLE: Mr. Baroody, Mr. Darrow, Ms. Calarco, Mr. Kilmer, Mr. Tamburrino, Mr. Westlake
Mr. Westlake: We will table until next month.
Mr. Darrow: For the benefit of Mr. Kilmer if there is a no show we generally allow them one table before it is dropped.
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